“Al señor Uribe se le ve angustiado”: Daniel Gutiérrez, siquiatra

“La gente le tiene miedo a Uribe”

“No puedo decir que el señor Uribe sea un enfermo”

Esta entrevista la hizo en enero de 2013 el hoy director de El Unicornio, Jorge Gómez Pinilla, para esa fecha Editor General de Olapolítica.com, de donde se retiró en agosto de ese año. Posteriormente ese medio digital cambió de plataforma, y dicho cambio incluyó la desaparición de todo el material que había sido publicado antes. Por eso, es como si se publicara por primera vez.

Daniel Gutiérrez es doctor en Medicina y Cirugía de la Universidad Javeriana, especialista en psiquiatría de esa misma universidad. Fue jefe del departamento de Psiquiatría del Instituto Nacional de Cancerología durante varios lustros, y hace más de 20 años dirige el Centro Integral de Atención en Salud Mental.

Lo que el entrevistador no sabía era que Gutiérrez tuviera tan clara su visión de la política desde una perspectiva psiquiátrica, y un tema relacionado con “abusos” desembocó en Álvaro Uribe. La entrevista tuvo tanta acogida en su momento, que El Espectador la reprodujo con este título: “Siquiatra considera que Álvaro Uribe se encuentra angustiado”. (Ver artículo de El Espectador).

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“El señor Uribe no solo conserva, sino que incrementó sus conductas de manipulación”. Daniel Gutiérrez, psiquiatra

Contactado por El Unicornio, le preguntamos al reconocido siquiatra si se ratificaba en el diagnóstico de hace siete años y contestó que “el señor Uribe no solo conserva, sino que incrementó sus conductas de manipulación”.

JORGE GÓMEZ: ¿Es posible desde un punto de vista psiquiátrico determinar el estado de salud mental de los colombianos?

DANIEL GUTIÉRREZ: Su pregunta remite a un tema de psicología social y psiquiatría cultural. Los colombianos a pesar de la violencia, la inseguridad, la parapolítica y la mala salud (a nivel hospitalario, de consulta y de prevención) han sido resistentes a todos estos embates. Entonces, a pesar del maltrato, Colombia es un país sano. Acaban de decir incluso que somos el país más feliz del mundo, según una encuesta. Ahora bien, yo creo que esto es más el deseo que la realidad de los colombianos. Lo cierto es que somos un país cansado, sin optimismo, frustrado; un país donde no tenemos líderes serios, que nos permitan seguir sus valores y generar de verdad una actitud de confianza y seguridad en el país.

JG: ¿En lo referente a jefes de Estado, conoce usted casos de gobernantes cuyo manejo o usufructo del poder los haya desequilibrado mentalmente?

DG: Bueno, está el caso del presidente Abdalá Bucaram en Ecuador, que tenía un trastorno bipolar y el Congreso de ese país lo destituyó, no por falta de capacidad política sino por insania mental. Y está el señor Hugo Chávez, que sufría de un trastorno delirante paranoide bastante marcado.

JG: ¿En qué se basa para decir que Chávez presentaba ese trastorno delirante paranoide?

DG: Chávez siempre se sintió perseguido por los Estados Unidos y creía que lo querían matar. Sus razones tenía, obvio, pero llegó a tal grado de despersonalización que se creía la reencarnación de Simón Bolívar. Esto hacía que dentro de él se movieran ideas de megalomanía, de desmedida grandeza. Chávez no confiaba ni en sus propios médicos, y por eso se fue a que le trataran su cáncer en Cuba. Hugo Chávez era una persona bastante enferma, no sólo en lo somático, sino también con trastornos paranoides que los remontaba a 1830, sugiriendo que Simón Bolívar fue envenenado. Para demostrarlo sacó su cadáver y le hizo una exhumación, y después de esto mostró una foto de quien supuestamente era Bolívar, donde aparecían combinados los rasgos del Libertador con los suyos propios.  En síntesis, era un caso totalmente paranoide.

JG: Usted menciona dos casos, Bucaram en Ecuador y Chávez en Venezuela. En Colombia, ¿sabe de algún gobernante que también presente o haya presentado una condición mental inestable?

DG: En el manejo del poder se presentan conductas sociopáticas o manipuladoras, que ponen la inteligencia al servicio del egoísmo. Pero así loquitos, lo que se dice loquitos, no podría mencionar ninguno.

JG: Desde una óptica psiquiátrica, ¿qué apreciaciones puede hacer sobre los temperamentos de dos gobernantes en apariencia tan disímiles como Hugo Chávez y Álvaro Uribe?

DG: La diferencia entre los dos no es mucha, con las debidas proporciones. El señor Uribe es un hombre bastante narcisista, egocéntrico, megalómano y resentido. Pretende utilizar el poder y a la gente que lo rodea, según se vio en su gobierno, para sus fines personales. Él gobernó al país en lo doméstico y en lo internacional como si fuera El Ubérrimo. Por eso no tuvo ningún reato en traspasar una frontera, en invadir a otro país. Y sigue convencido de que si no es él el que va a redimir a Colombia, nadie lo va a hacer. En coincidencia con Chávez, Uribe tiene también un delirio paranoide, lo que se conoce como delirio mesiánico reivindicativo.

JG: Eso en cristiano, ¿qué significa?

DG: Significa que tiene una mente totalmente narcisista y egocéntrica.

JG: ¿Una personalidad como la que usted describe, puede influir en su forma de gobernar?

DG: En sus primeros cuatro años de gobierno, durante su primer periodo, a Uribe le fue muy bien.  Yo lo escuché en la fraternidad masónica número 8, y en ese momento las encuestas le daban algo así como el 0,01 por ciento de los votos. Allá nos convenció a todos los presentes con un discurso de lucha, de dignidad, de respeto, de energía, así que decidimos votar por él. Y luego vino su primer periodo presidencial, durante el cual no fueron evidentes los desmanes del segundo periodo. Al señor Uribe se le olvidó que el poder, como todo en la vida, es transitorio, que nada es eterno, y se quiso mantener para un segundo y un tercer periodo, y vinieron los desbarajustes. ¿Cómo es posible que haya respaldado y ascendido a general a Mauricio Santoyo, al que según dice no escogió, pero sí lo mantuvo varios años en la Casa de Nariño, sabiendo que el tipo había sido denunciado como colaborador de grupos criminales en Medellín? Y en el camino dejó encartados a los doctores Diego Palacio y Sabas Pretelt con lo de la Yidispolítica, y a su secretario general Bernardo Moreno con lo de las ‘chuzadas’ del DAS, y a Mario Aranguren con lo de la UIAF. Es increíble la cantidad de alfiles suyos que se han quemado o han ido a parar a la cárcel, mientras que él, en su bastión, permanece libre.

JG: Esos “quemados” que usted menciona, ¿no será que algún día pudieran llegar a traicionar a Uribe y contar cosas?

DG: Yo no diría traicionar, pero sí podrían dejar en evidencia que a ellos les tocó hacer lo que les mandaba el jefe. Porque, quién manda: ¿el secretario o el presidente? Quién manda: ¿la directora del DAS o el presidente? Quién manda: ¿Pretelt, Palacio, Aranguren o el presidente? El que mandaba era el presidente, así que ellos tendrían que poner eso en evidencia. Otro aspecto psicológico a considerar es el miedo: la gente le tiene miedo a Uribe.  No sé sé quién será el representante de la Comisión de Acusación que actúa como el juez natural del presidente, pero yo creo que allá, en esa Comisión de la Cámara, le tienen miedo a Uribe.

JG: Y a usted, con esto que está diciendo… ¿no le da miedo?

DG: Yo un tiempo estuve revisando lo que pasó con los periodistas de Cambio, que se quedaron sin su revista, y compruebo que lo que digo no es nada nuevo. Y claro, me da miedo. Pero no soy periodista, no soy político, y mi pensamiento no es político. Yo hablo como un ciudadano común y corriente. Ahora, desde el punto de vista psiquiátrico, no puedo decir que el señor Uribe sea un enfermo. No es mi paciente, y no estaría interesado en tenerlo entre mi distinguida clientela. Pero en mi condición de ciudadano me abriga el derecho a tener mis creencias, y como siquiatra tengo una ventaja: no trabajo para el Estado, así que no me pueden despedir de ninguna parte. No me voy a quedar sin puestos públicos, no soy candidato a nada, no pertenezco a La U y no comulgo con el Centro Democrático.

JG: En su condición de siquiatra, ¿qué le recomendaría usted al expresidente Uribe?

DG: Al señor Uribe se le ve ansioso, se le ve irritable, se le ve angustiado. Esas goticas de valeriana que toma no le han servido mucho. No es para menos, porque de todas partes lo están bombardeando, y tiene que estar todos los días repeliendo ataques, defendiendo a la gente que involucró en problemas jurídicos, y eso tiene que generar un estado de ansiedad y tensión. Como las goticas no le están funcionando, debería tomar algún sedante o ansiolítico que le permita disminuir la angustia y apreciar su entorno con más serenidad.

* Foto de portada, tomada de svcnoticias.com.

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  77. Que bien que el pueblo colombiano empiece a despertar del ignotismo en el cuál se encontraba como dijo un conocido político “no es el mesías ” es un político que de manera muy hábil e inteligente le dio a las masas lo que pedían pero a cambio se adueñó de sus ideas y pensamientos y se convirtieron en sus tontos útiles.

  78. Me aterra pensar que en éste país haya gente sin memoria y lo más probable es que los que defienden tanto al MATARIFE,se les olvide actos tan atroces como los falsos positivos, donde muchachos inocentes y humildes fueron acribillados, todo para obtener beneficios económicos y reconocimiento por parte de un genocida que les colgaba medallitas en la solapa de sus muy indignos uniformes militares mientras unas madres desconsoladas lloraban la muerte de sus inmolados hijos; o como le redujo las horas extras y acabó con los recargos nocturnos de los trabajadores colombianos que son los que realmente mueven la economía de este país; o como se les olvida que compró su reelección a punta de sobornos, dejando encartados, señalados y judicializados a dos de sus más brillantes ministros para después darles la espalda y dejarlos a su suerte; o cómo se les olvida que durante su paso por la aerocivil fue cuando en otro genocida de Escobar se fortaleció y tuvo vía libre para armar su flotilla de avionetas y enviar coca al resto del mundo, desatando la más violenta guerra en nuestro país donde murió mucha gente inocente…
    Muy seguramente a muchos de los que lo defienden (oligarcas de medio pelo), no les ha tocado vivir y sentir el dolor por la muerte, el asesinato o la desaparición de un ser querido..
    O la desgracia de ver reducidos sus ingresos por cuenta de una política de “austeridad” donde de la categoría de pobre se pasaba a la de miserable…
    Por eso, pueblo colombiano si ustedes se fijan bien los que salen a respaldar a éste personaje son gente bien, que salen en sus lujosos autos y camionetas de alta gama, dueños de fincas y negocios; pero y la gente de abajo que?….el trabajador raso que?…el pequeño comerciante que?….el vendedor ambulante, el de la caseta de revistas o la mesera de una cafetería que!, el conductor de taxi que?….
    Pensemos un poco y no sigamos cayendo en lo mismo, esto tiene que cambiar o sino qué país le vamos a dejar a nuestros hijos y nietos?…..
    En otros países de América Latina a los expresidentes los juzgan los condenan y van para la cárcel como cualquier delincuente corrupto o asesino y el país sigue su rumbo, estirpando estos males de su sociedad y fortaleciendo sus democracias, entonces porqué nosotros no podemos hacerlo?…
    Un abrazo…

  79. A lo que si considero enfermiso es comparar a Alvaro Uribe Vélez con el loco del Chávez, quién dejó a Venezuela sumido en la miseria, pero yo creo que cuando Uribe Vélez gobernó éste famoso doctor se estaba rascándo los huevos como para que todo se le hiciera paisaje y no poder visualizar ni sentir la tranquilidad que le trajo el Dr. Uribe a Colombia, al reducir muchos índices de criminalidad y violencia, delincuencia, aumentar el empleo y las posibilidades de hacer industria en un país que estaba vuelto añicos… Que tristeza de Dr. y sí manipulador sí, al hacer publicaciones nefastas y ridículas sin un ápice de fundamentos teórico

  80. Daniel Gutiérrez, éste famoso doctorsito, sí tiene pinta de enfermo, panzón y con problemas de dermatitis que evidencia trastornos mentales, Siiii… En nombre de nosotros, los seguidores de Alvaro Uribe Vélez le pedimos respeto, osado… Ni se atreva a comparar al Dr. Uribe con el enfermo del Chávez

  81. Finalmente corroboro que los siquiatras son locos, y claramente su testimonio es el reflejo de su mente paranoide… Atrevido, Dr. de medio pelo, que miedo tan solo una conducta con un enfermo como él…

  82. Es un eminente profesional de la salud mental, quién reconoce, analiza y Vislumbra la mentalidad maquiavélica, criminal, narcisista y egoísta de un personaje funesto para nuestra historia reciente que ha querido gobernar un país como si fuera su finca de recreo; llevándose por delante cualquier tipo de obstáculo ya sea transgrediendo las leyes e instituciones con tal de ser él quién imponga su voluntad y que las cosas se hagan como el disponga…
    Todavía no se sabe ni una décima parte de lo que éste ajedrecista de mente retorcida ha hecho con nuestro país; pero ya el muro empezó a derrumbarse y cuando todos a los que se ha llevado por delante dejen el miedo y empiecen a hablar, será el debacle para este señor…apenas estamos empezando….+..

  83. Bien dice tan prestigioso psiquiatra que el Dr. Uribe no es su paciente. De serlo, no serían éticas sus declaraciones y según manifiesta, eso si le preocuparía. Pero sí que ligereza tiene en emitir juicios de quién no esta a su alcance examinar y ser su paciente……..????????

  84. Que genio de doctor..me da su número para enloquecer con su profesionalismo..cuántos años de estudio para llegar a una conclusión tan brillante..quien no se preocupa ????

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